Hello Damon,
Welmax can ship you GOIOT product 501 (Acetoxy Silicone) ex stock again now.Price is List $53.40 Net to Boatbuilder $42.72 plus F/H (UPS or FEDEX if urgent)
Regards Maxwell G. (Max) Hazelwood
You can Fax order to: 561- 287-0508 C/Card Tel: 561-2859

Where do you get that "glue"? I took out one port and on the advice of the boat yard put it in with 5200.--Ugly and leaks. I placed four screws, one in each corner to hold itin place while setting. Bad mistake.I was advised by South Shore Marine in Canada to use a two part glue which I was unable to obtain except in mass quantities with a short shelf life. I found a substitute made by Lord Chemical Company which also was unavailable, but a technician there had pitty on me and sent me a sample. My next window came out better.
Now the problem is how to get the first window out and where to get some more "glue." This so called glue is an acrylic which does in fact seem to bond to both the boat and the window. Any suggestions?

Helped a friend reset windows on his C&C 25 and used the factory recommended 2 part acrylic adhesive. Could only buy it in small 2 part packs and was very expensive. It is adhesive and holds well, but dealer recommended using Sikaflex caulk to fill gaps and seal. When I did my 32 I asked a lot of questions and Sikaflex (caulk with aggressive adhesive) kept coming up. Tried it but didn't last. Last unsuccessful attempt was with 5200. I agree - it's messy.

To remove ports apply palm pressure from the inside. I stuck in popsicle sticks to hold the port out as I worked along. Takes patience. Clean old ports thoroughly. Had stainless frames made from 1" bar stock sized to fit over the seam. Used butyl caulk tape (light grey colour) to set the port and rubber spacers to hold them in place. I believe butyl is what C&C used for the hull-deck joint. Had stainless bolts welded to the inside of the frames and drilled holes (hate that part) in appropriate places. Used more butyl tape to set the frames. Also imbedded rubber o-rings in the butyl as a spacer so I wouldn't sqeeze it all out. Result is a very clean look. Frame is through-bolted but there are no bolt heads showing. Gets lots of admirerers. I'm very happy with the look and no leaks.
Frank Walczak -- Felicity C&C32

Here are a couple of snips I saved from one of the last times this thread went around. Hope they help:

"use: acid methacrylate adhesive...manuf. by Dexter..Hysol H4000 obtained from Rudolph Bros. & Co. in Ohio 1-800-600-9508 www.rudolphbros.com it lasts as long as a NEW piece of plexiglass ...about 8-10 years ...the system must be ridgid and repairable...don't use epoxy....not all that difficult but takes time..
bob on the lower Chesapeake"

"I replaced windows on my previous boat an Ericson 37. The process used unconventional at the time but it worked very well. Ten years later , I still believe in the system.I used automotive urethane glue which is designed to add structure as well as seal windshields.
Contact Essex Chemical for more info."

My personal opinion is that whichever solution is used to repair windows of this type, it should be one that offers structural integrity as well as watertightness. If it doesn't, the result will be stress cracks, and the leaking will never end.

Neal
Last year was my first year as an owner of a C&C ('81 C&C25). There were no leaks in the boatyard, but after the stresses of launching, one of the port lights popped out slightly. I conferred with the South Shore Yachts folks, and was told that after removing a port, they strongly recommended careful gelcoat repair before installing a new port. Also, they claimed that full removal of the port was likely to leave it damaged - a replacement port was going to be needed. The cost of the replacement port ($US 200 each ) from SS plus the fact the the boat was already in the water made me look for another solution.

I tried silicone caulking (bathroom stuff) and used duct tape to hold the port in place while the silicone set up (24 hrs). I then ran a bead of silicone around both ports. I have not had a leak all season and have no immediate plans to make a "permanent" repair.

Since I have a C&C 35, Mark I with frames, I haven't had the problems that this thread is talking about. But, I also work with a lot of adhesives in the Aerospace business. Loctite make a 2 part urethane adhesive that I think would work very well in this application. The actual product is Loctite 605 or Loctite 610. The down side of these adhesives is the pot life (5 minutes for 605 and 10 minutes for 610), the up side is that it is pretty easy to dispense and mix. If I remember correctly Ciba makes a similar adhesive but I'm a Loctite man myself. They have always been extremely helpful when I've needed them.

Hi Howard,
There is a new product under development that I saw on a TV show called Ship Shape TV. Check out their web site at www.shipshapetv.com under product info.

Anti-Bond 2015 -  Anti-Bond 2015 was designed to loosen or debond adhesives such as 5200.
HOW TO GET IT:  Call Anti-Bond @ 1-877-800-7971 or email them at abond2015@aol.com
Ed

Tom,
I lucked out and had my brother make the frames. When I was looking for a fabricator, I ran across three welding shops making stainless frames for boats. Any good welding shop that works with stainless can do it. Not all welders do electro polishing to get that high gloss stainless finish. Get your flat bar polished first. Takes the polisher less time and hence less expensive. After the frames are cut and welded (be sure the welds are solid/continuous not spot) the polisher can clean up the heat spots. You'll never know they were welded. I also had bolts welded to the inside of the frame for a clean finished look on the outside. No bolt heads showing on the mounted frames. Looks great! On the inside of the boat I mounted teak rails full length above and below the windows. Cut notches to hide the bolts/nuts and remounted the curtain rails on top of the new teak rails.
Howard,

Do you have to use a plastics type material for your windows? It will scratch easily and look like hell, is expensive, and acrylic and the like will shatter, in spite of the legend of plastic being unbreakable.You would have to go to very expensive lexan for shatterproof panes. I recently had two panes (approx 1 sq. ft each) of 6mm laminated glass cut at a local glass shop for under $10 each, complete with radiused corners and sharp edges removed. I will install them in the frames I recently refurbished.
Incidentally, the recommendation I have heard repeatedly is to use butyl tape (often used for motorhomes etc, costing under $10 per 25 ft roll of 1/8 by 1" strip) for sealing your aluminum frames to the cabin sides.Six of my windows (that I did not repair yet) went on easily and seem to have sealed well, though they have not been in long. I have two more to do that I am completely rebuilding with the new panes.

After discussing the installation of the pane in the frame with a local company who build and repair marine windows of all kinds, they recommended what they almost always use - urethane sealant. Theirs is Fixmaster type 97183, made by Fel-Pro Chemical Products, phone no.1-800-992-9799. Black when finished off looks really sharp. They warn,however, that it is really hard to take apart again if you should need;it is there for keeps, and I am a bit hesitant about that kind of finality!

Another option of which I have heard good results, is to use a 100% marine grade UV-resistant silicone, which is much more forgiving. I cannot vouch for these matters as I have not got around to installing mine, but it will have to be soon with the season about to start!

How nice to have had your boat since new, as you know all its history. Enjoy your teenager; you are probably the envy of every parent who has teenagers at home as you no doubt have the best behaved and agreeable teenager in the world!
Good luck,
Richard Britton,-- "Friendly Dragon",-- New Westminster, B.C., -- Canada.

I would have to totally agree that lexan is the best took out my lewmar hatch in my c&c 29 and replaced it with a Bomar offshore, liked it so much that i took all my closed window's and installed bomar's opening window only had to cut the openings a 1/4" bigger i now have no more leaky windows plus the added benefit of a cross breeze, only side effect is if one leaves the window open on the windward side and you hit a wave that goes across the deck if you know what mean.
Richard

I just replaced one of the windows on my 32 today. I got the window from south Shore yachts in Canada. It is acrylic, which is the original material. I know that there has been some discussion about poly carbonate, but since I was only replacing one, I wanted the color to match. The original windows were 3/8" plexi glass or any other brand acrylic, the color was bronze 2404. I hope to not find a crack tomorrow when I go to remove the masking tape. Hope this helps some. by the way, what did they glue them in with?.

If memory serves me correctly, the salon windows on the 41 are maybe5-6" tall and a thousand, ergh, three feet long? Common plexi has about 1/16" of thermal expansion per foot in normal temperatures, so if my memory of the window size is correct they would try to expand/contract by some 3/16" along the length, and if there isn't room for that they might pop or crack. I just can't help but wonder: If companies like Rohm & Haas(Plexiglass(R)) and GE (silicone sealants) all say that silicone is unsuitable as a bedding compound for plexi, why people keep trying to use it anyway...

I got my butyl tape from Richard prego@trebnet.com who is also on this e-mail list. It was $40 CDN for a 2" roll 40' long. He may still have some.

I just replaced a window on my LF 43. Major task - 6 ft long, 8 inches wide. I used Bronze plexi to match the other side. I drilled and tapped holes for 12 8-32 screws around the edge to hold it in place, and used white life seal to bed it. I used screws cause I don't like the idea of Life seal holding my windows in place in a blow offshore. I reaqlize that crazing or such could occur at the screws - I had the screw holes in the plexi drilled slightly larger than the screws to allow for some movement. Mine have been in since Thurs with no cracks yet (knock on wood). I believe your must either have been defectiive plexi, or the fit was too tight and they forced it in rather than sanding it to fit. In either case, they should replace it with no charge.
Gary

I would recommend a two part polyurethane adhesive such as Loctite 605or Loctite 610. The only diference between them is the pot life, 605 isabout 5 minutes, 610 is 10 minutes. They come in a double sided dispensor so that the adhesive is metered out in the correct ratio.

Best article that I've seen on How To is in the March / April 1998 issue of Multihulls, "Installing Bulletproof Windows" George Phollips (author) really knows his stuff. Multi hulls e-mail is multimag@aol.com. Following his instructions, wet her for acrylic or poly carbonate will give you good results and eliminate crazing and cracking that is common on C&C's.
Richard

C&C currently uses stuff called Plexus MA320 (methacrylate). After months of screwing around with C&C, I decided to find the manufacturer and ask them directly (stock #32000). It is a two part epoxy that requires a special gun (around $100). it isn't cheap, but you don't want a cheap job, either. WARNING:
This stuff firms-up real fast, there currently is no solvent, which makes it tricky to work with. If you don't do it right..... sorry. This is probably why they are reluctant to provide it directly to owners .You may find more info and distributors (required) at the following URL:www.itwplexus.com.

One of the main problems with plastic windows is that a flat piece of plastic, either acrylic or poly carbonate is bent to take the shape of the boat. Plastic has memory and therefore is constantly trying to regain its original shape. This ongoing stress results in pulling away from the bedding compound and cracking. The problem is compounded by varying temperatures, since the plastic windows will expand and contract at a different rate than the surrounding substrate. If the plastic is heated and bent to the appropriate shape, trimmed a little smaller than the opening and imbedded with a flexible bedding compound, it will maintain a seal, reduce cracking or grazing and float to allow for expansion or contraction.
For Do It Yourself instructions, get a copy of the March/April 1998 issue of MULTIHULLS and follow the instructions in the article "Bulletproof Windows by George Phillips. He even tells you how to make a form and bend the windows in a household oven. For longer windows, you may have to be a bit creative or contract part of the job to a plastic shop with a a larger oven. These windows will withstand the most severe storms anyone is likely to encounter and won't leak Hope this info is helpful.
Tom and Kate,

Leamington glass is located here in sunny southern Ontario. Just look for the southermost part of Canada and you will find leamington. But seriously, their phone # is 326 5776, the mailing address is PO Box 156, Leamington. I just got off the phone with them, they do hundreds of boat windows, >mostly in plexiglass. You can mail them a template and they will quote you a price.
Hope this helps - Frank

Hello Damon,
Welmax can ship you GOIOT product 501 (Acetoxy Silicone) ex stock again now. Price is List $53.40 Net to Boatbuilder $42.72 plus F/H (UPS or FEDEX if urgent)
Regards Maxwell G. (Max) Hazelwood
You can Fax order to: 561- 287-0508 C/Card Tel: 561-2859

Hello,
I wish to thank all the list folks who contributed to the thread regarding port replacement. The information and experience has saved me from launching into many days and $ of unnecessary work. I learned:
1. On older C&C's you don't need to remove or replace the frames unless they are leaking and you have to rebed them because they are difficult to remove without warping and because the port can be removed without the frame.
2. If old fogged plexi ports are the problem like mine try refinishing it first.
Someone on the list recommended Brasso which I tried last weekend. Wow, I don't recall a more dramatic result from any maintenance product. From almost opaque to completely clear. Now I don't even plan to replace the ports. I also refinished my old Lexan forward hatch and companion way hatch. Won't eliminate deep crazing but makes everything else look like new. Since I was on a roll I also found Brasso cleans dirty vinyl bumbers and deck vents. It's great to find a readily available, inexpensive cleaner/refinisher that works for many purposes.
Thanks again and keep the advice coming.
Bob

The second problem is leaky windows. The 1980 has the glued in type and they leak. I carefully cut around them and took them out and rebedded them and added oval head SS screws every eight inches or so. One has started leaking again. I think I need some better bedding material.

I own a 1985 C and C 37, and the windows on the salon top are leaking (the fixed windows, not the openable port windows); the windows themselves appear non-damaged, but the caulking/sealer around the window between the window and the fiberglass appears to be faulty. I believe I need to remove the old sealant and apply new sealant.
My questions are:
1. Does this sound like the problem?
2. How is this best done? IE: how to remove the sealant, how to apply sealant.
3. What type of sealant should be used? Are any other materials needed?
I am a relative novice with this boat, and would appreciate any information that can be given (given as if speaking to someone who has little experience with maintenance and repair).
Thank you very much.
Steve Spontak "Panacea" - Chicago

Steve -
This topic comes up every few months. In brief, the ports are glued in place, not chaulked. You have to use Plexus, a two part glue. I'd recommend putting in a new port rather than regluing the old one. Any local plastics shop that makes "boat windows" will take your old one and fabricate a new one for less than $150 which you then glue in place and then chaulk.
Have fun, Greg

Well you sure came to the right place for this problem.........
The quick answer is that Stu Murray has done us all the great favor of putting up an archive of list emails for many of our favorite topics. Go to www.cncphotoalbum.com and navigate to the email archives under W for windows. You will see a number of responses on exactly this issue, with some varing opinions. Over the past two years on this list, it seems like many people have come to recomend the Plexus solution.
This window problem, by the way, is probably the most common issue for this boat. The UV light causes a break down of the adhesive over time, and results in the leaking. The keys are 1) removal, 2) clean up of the bed, 3) replacement material, 4) selecting your favorite adhesive, 5)holding the window in place during cure.
Good luck.
Michael - "Indigo" C+C 35 Mark III - East Hampton, NY

Hi Steve,
Welcome to the list. I have replaced the fixed (and the Beckson opening ports) portlights on "Ronin." Actually, I've replaced just about everything on "Ronin" but that's a whole 'nother story. :-) Anyway, I used Boat Life "Life Seal" to bed my ports on the advice of the gentleman who made the new ports. So far so good but I suspect that were I to do it again I would look at duplicating the method that C&C used given the effort involved in rebedding them. You'll be getting plenty of better suggestions than my method from list members (look for a response from a certain Dr. Cutter...) so stay tuned.
I don't know what shape your original portlights are in but mine were hazy and terribly scratched (and falling out...) but I would recommend replacing them, again given that most of the cost will be in your time and effort. Makes the boat look like new. You can actually see out too... Cost was approximately $75/85 (US) per port and well worth it.
Have fun,
Dave - '82 37' - "Ronin" - Annapolis

Oh yes the windows.
I did this job on my C&C 29 II and it turned out good. Getting the old windows out is a problem. If they are already broken it easier. Cleaning the old surface and windows is very important. I then drilled about 8 holes through the widow and cabin and used life seal with machine screws and nuts to hold the window it in place. You don't need to tighten them down just snug. That held up for two years know. I'm fixen to do the same thing on my C&C 37, same problem. I sold the C&C 29 but we are in the same marina and the new owner reports that they do not leak.
Good Luck - Ken C&C 37