Quick question - any input from other C&C 24's , or anyone else would be great: My question concerns the pointing abililty of a C&C 24. I find in light to moderate winds I'm usually pointing OK - equal to some boats, though slightly lower than most (especially those pesky Tanzers!). Is this the case with others on the list? I think my sail settings are OK - I've just taken it for granted that my boat doesn't fair to well upwind. Should I be "tweaking" something? (The backsay I use has about 3 inches of play in it , and I don't have genoa tracks - these two items have always been foremost in my mind). In conditions over 15 knots however, I find the pointing ability deteriorates quite a bit - and find I'm usually 10 to 20 degrees below the fleet. The sail literally backwinds if I try an point with the others. Any comments/suggestions more than welcome...
Thanks, - Doug Burton - Troglodyte '24CYC , PEI

One mistake many C&C owners have is that they haul the traveller up so that the main is actually at or above centerline, While it looks like the main is pulling, the boats almost stop. Try trimming for jib, going fast with the boom a foot below centerline then put boat into pointing mode. Slowly raise traveller, as soon as knot meter stops climbing ease traveller back to leeward a few fractions. Many of the C&C designs go faster but a tad lower than other designs, don't try to outpoint them, just sail your boat and play the shifts.
Good luck. Scott

I have a C&C 25. We club raced on Sat. in 20-25 knot winds. In those conditions, I was again reminded of some things:
-beware being overpowered. As another lister mentioned, over 20 degrees of heel reduces performance. In the above conditions, the main was reefed and with the #3 jib worked well. Heel was at 17 degrees and boat was making hull speed.
-flatten the headsail by moving the sheet blocks well forward. On Sat. I didn't at first and paid the price. I had speed but was outpointed by my competion (mainly Catalina 27's). Adjusting the car forward flatten the jib and produced increased pointing ability without loss of speed.
End result, a more comfortable ride for me and my crew and, on Sat., a first in my division on corrected (PHRF) time.

Wouldn't you want to pull the car aft to flatten the jib and let the leech spill a little wind?
Steve & Suzanne - S/V Pony Express

Quite right and sorry for the confusion. Besides needing to proofread my own messages. I did move the car forward but that was because I had change down to a smaller headsail at the race beginning. It was still back from where it would have been in light air.

Fin keel? In my experience C&C's (except maybe Landfall's) point as well as most and better than many. My boat is a C&C designed hull, built by Paceship. Underbody with fin keel is very similar to the 24's. I've never had any problem with pointing ability (except for the trip we tried to tow a dinghy =|:-), in fact I can usually point higher in heavier air. Loose stays, especially fore and aft will definitely cost you to windward as the headstay will sag. If you ask around you might find someone has a rigging gauge you could borrow. As a member of the yacht club, perhaps the club could (would) purchase one for the use of it's members.
Do you have a traveler on the main or does the sheet connect to a single point? What size headsail ( eg 150% genoa) are you using. Lacking a genoa track, you can fasten a block to the toerail to get the correct sheeting position.
Kent

Jerry,
I've received lot's of great feedback on this question - I'll likely work on tightening up the backstay (which will involve cutting a piece out of it). My traveller actually is just a line attached to the end of the boom - with an old mainsheet cleat on the end, which I secure to the windward toerail. It does the trick, and makes tacking a little more interesting.
Anyway, I'm interested in your suggestion about the genoa tracks - how did you go about installing these? Any pointers would be a great help.
Thanks, - Doug

Sounds to me like you're sheeting too far to windward. In heavy air, on my track when going hard to windward, I usually set about 6 inches to the leeward side and sheet down hard. Foresail trim seems to be more important. Have you got telltales on your sails. If not install telltales on both. Mine has 3 on the genoa about 8 inches from the leading edge equally spaced along the sail. Trim the sail to where they stream back and adjust the sheeting point on the track to where they all break at the same time. The telltales on the main are attached to the back of each batten pocket and trim the main AFTER you've got the genoa pulling well.
I find about 12 to 15 degrees of heel gives the best performance. Anything over 15 degrees it's time to reef. If I don't reef, I'll have so much weather helm, the rudder starts acting like a brake.
Kent

Based on this, it would seem that roller furling would negatively effect pointing also. Is that true? If so, are there any tricks to help.
Thanks, Dennis

Doug,
It sounds to me as though you may want to consider a traveler for the main sheet so that you can properly shape and position your mainsail. Mine is at the bridge deck position of my 24. Genoa shape, hence slot shape, can be controlled nicely by barber haulers (in, not out) or twings if you like without the addition of genoa tracks. The spreaders on the 24 are pretty wide on the short rig so the addition of tracks isn't worth it in my opinion.
Carlo

Interesting how your (wonderfully detailed) description of sheeting to windward is applicable to my 33. I don't think it's just a C&C thing, my previous boat was a Hughes 24 and one inch of boom movement made a big difference there too.

The main should really not be sheeted past the centerline of the boat. The main should be on a traveler either at the back or preferably in the middle of the cockpit for sail control. Of course if it is in the middle of the cockpit it becomes a shin buster. My old C&C Redline came with a traveler at the back but the previous owner was a keen racer and he put a traveler right across the cockpit with variable cars which I changed to stops so I could just come about and the main would only swing over to the set stop. But variable adjustment is better and that is what I have on the Redwing. Moving cars on a sailtrack is a lot simpler than moving the blocks on the toerail.
Peter - S/V Bon Vivant - C&C Redwing 30 - Lion's Head, Ontario

Yes - roller furling is detrimental to pointing ability. Serious racers use a grooved stay so that the entry is smooth vs hanks were the leading edge is broken up. Also a grooved stay allows then to hoist another sail before dousing the one that is flying. Also supposedly one can't get a 150% genoa that will also set properly at 130% or 100%. Even the 135% genoas don't have a fabulous shape when rolled back to 100%. I have roller furling and like it as I do a lot of sailing either short-handed or with inexperienced crew or both and the roller furling is a real life saver. But my roller furling sail is old and it was not manufactured with to-day's knowledge and it does not set well rolled.
Peter - S/V Bon Vivant - C&C Redwing 30 - Lion's Head, Ontario

Everything Peter D says about furled genoas is correct (They are a pain, upwind, when partially furled) Why not try a removable, when not in use, inner forestay with a flat, high cut jib, max 80% of FT , for heavy weather conditions. It also brings the CE closer to the CLR making for better pointing. There are other advantages to this arrangement - i.e. spinnaker staysail and light weather additional sail area (cutter rig). This subject is too big to cover on the list - but let's hear from any detractors.
Ron Whiteley, - S/V PIZAZZ

I will have to differ on the part that they are a pain up wind. Have finally broken down and am installing a furling system on our 29. Just like Peter I am always single handing the boat and out in any kind of weather. What i have opted to do on the new Genoa i am having built for the furling system is to put in what is called a Draft Regulator. Now some of you might say what the devil is he talking about, or seen that and it does not work. On the second point have seen and can't believe how well it works. Basically it's 4 foam strips 2" wide sewn in the sail cloth in about 1" increments apart, it allows the sail to furl from a 150 down to a 130. What the strips do is keep the shape of the sail when you furl in. We also race the boat so depending on the wind conditions generally the sail i start with i finish with. Occasionally that choice has made life rather exciting. At the end of next season I hope to be able to better advise on how well this decision has worked for us.
Richard - C&C 29 -Anonymous

I use hanked on sails (can't afford a roller yet =|:-) However, I have noticed many times that we're doing better than other boats with our Genoa (about 140%) flying and main reefed, than they are with full main and their genoa partly furled. In heavier winds, if I fly smaller jib (100%) and full main, I've got so much weather helm, I'm not making any speed at all. When we need to reduce sail, first we reef the main, then we change down the headsail. Then we go to just the main. With the main reefed the CE seems to move far enough forward, that there's not too much weather helm with just the main.
Latest issue of Blue Water Sailing (magazine) had an excellent article by Robert Perry, on Rig types (Sloop, Cutter, Yawl, masthead, fractional, etc) with advantages & disadvantages of each, as well as what to fly in what conditions.
Kent

I recently had a new 150 built for the furler on my 44 I asked the sail maker to sew the luff pading onto a separate bolt rope, which I hoist on a messenger line that passes thru the head cringle on my genoa.
When the wind is light the sail performs as well as any other When the wind picks up , on goes the luff pad and reefing the sail dosent cause it to bag out.
Works for me.........
Phil - In Flight

Interesting concept. The downside it would seem to me is the need to go onto the foredeck with the luff pad if the winds pick up, which is when you least want to go there.
Have you ever compared, in say 5 to 10 knots, how much difference the luff pad makes hoisted? Would be useful to see comparison. Have you ever ended up furling without the pad? If so how much difference with/without? (realize this one more subjective unless one reefed without, measured, and then unfurled, hoisted and reefed again). Does the pad run up the foil track, or loose?
Thanks - Kent

Just as another afterthought, Dave Miller at the Vancouver North loft told me that on smaller boats, there was too much loss in unfurled sail shape with a luff pad, and advised against the pad for our new furling 135. So we went without. Still holds shape well enough at about 110 size to retain full-size pointing ability, and if the wind is stronger than that, we switch down to a reefable blade. I'm not sure that I would want the bother of a separate luff pad on a small boat, but I can see using it on a larger working platform, such as a 44.
Jim Watts - Paradigm - C&C 29 Mk II - Victoria, BC

The reefing foam is hoisted on the other luff groove on Profurl furler. The performance difference is subjective however , the sail is flatter tha when reefed without the foam pad. It is easier to read telltales without the foam.
We usualy hoist the foam at the first sign of increasing wind.
It works for me - Phil - In flight

My sailmaker (ACE in CT) also is of the opinion that a foam luff on a 24' boat headsail is not needed.
My new 150 furls (ProFurl RI-25), has no foam, and my boat points GREAT. I put my snatch blocks way back, even or just slightly aft of the winches (I sized them for the extra load) and my luff yarns break as if the three were attached at the ends!
Traveler is bridgedeck mounted and I run the car as high as possible and try to keep the boom centered amidships in light to 15mph winds. So, if your C&C-24 does not point well and your sails are new, you simply need to work on your sail trim.
Fool around with the extremes (luff tension, foot tension, block and car positions etc.) and record the behavior.
Also, take your sailmaker (or another EXPERT sailor) out with you. You will learn alot really fast!
Carlo